Seen my surgeon.... FUMING!!!!!!!!!!

Hi All,
I am fuming so please bare with me!
As some of you know I have a 'small dent' in my right boob and makes my right boob look a different shape. When I open doors, or use my chest muscle in any way, this 'dent' turns into a massive line across my boob. It does it on the left side too, but the 'dent' isn't apparent on the left when I'm not flexing and isn't causing me much issue.
The right boob affects me day to day, it even moves about when brushing my teeth etc. I do not go to the gym and do not do any exercise (bad I know) but I am also now afraid to do any exercise in fear of making my 'dent' worse. My right boob aches at the end of the day, especially at work where we have heavy doors to open and so the boob does a lot of moving around. (am also right handed which makes it worse)

So I went to see my surgeon to see what could be done. I saw him last night. I did lots of research before I went to see him, but planned to go in and just ask what he thought before giving across my research

I took my top off and sat down, he said he could see that the right breast went in slightly. I showed him what happens when i tense the muscle and explained that it made the dent even bigger. He didn't really say much else at that point. he obviously felt around a bit and said that both were even at top etc.

He then took photos.one from front and one from either side as usual. 
In the photos there was shadow under each boob. He said they were fine. I then said that he had just sat at the bench with me saying he could see a dent. He said he didn't say that...... He was making me feel like I was seeing and hearing things. He was back tracking at what he had said. I pointed out that the shadow on right was very different and that you could see the dent. He said there wasn't a dent in the photos. and that it was clear from the hotos that there is nothing wrong. I again said that he even said he could see the line when I showed him in person and he returned to the photos saying that there was nothing to see. I explained about my aches etc and pointed out the dent again and again. He said the only way to sort the problem was to remove the implants totally and that my body obviously wasn't made for implants............
I showed him photos on my phoone and said look... in this photo the boob looks square. He then drew a picture of a square and said "this is a square, where are the corners in this photo".  I explained that he knew what I meant and that my boob had a distinct line under it. He didn't comment

I was furious. I then asked why he didn't tell me about muscle distortion before I had my surgery. I asked why he told me about capsular contracture and rotation but nothing about muscle distortion considering it is a high possibility. He said that he has NEVER had a patient complain about it before so he doesn't see it as necessary. 
I explained that my research showed me that either the muscle isn't released enough or that it is released too much and his reply???  I am very precise and make sure the incisions are correct 
I then asked him how much muscle is covering my breast. He drew me a diagram that I have regular unders. I then explained the split muscle technique and asked why that wasn't an option. At this point he appeared slightly squirmish and realised that I had done some research.
He started to look at my old photos of my old boobs, pointing out that my right appeared slightly lower that my right so the skin may of been looser which maybe causing the shape. so he was back to agreeing that there was a line (he refused to say dent)

I then said that I would go to other surgeons to get other opinions and that if they said that it was fixable then he would be paying for it as I would sue him. He again then went into more detail drawing diagrams and saying that I have two issues. The line - which is loose skin which cannot be fixed and then the flexing of the muscles which nothing can be done as that my anatomy. I then asked why the 'line turns into a massive dent when I flex my boobs.  he said they are two separate things.
I then said 'do I have muscle distortion'  he didn't reply. I said 'do I or do i not have muscle distortion' and he said. 'it appears that this conversation is going no where as each time I explain something you do not believe me'

At that point I could not take anymore. I stood up and as I left I asked that I get sent full copies of all my records including photos. He then said 'I need that in writing'.
I then left the room in tears.

I now do not know what to do.... 

He at first thought I was clueless and thought that saying to take the implants out totally would shut me up, then when he realised that i had done some research he tried to explain things, but still not at any point say that I had muscle distortion. and his reason?? "ive never had anyone complain'
considering nearly 70% of people with unders gets some kind of muscle distortion, I find that very hard to believe. 

Sorry for such a long post but I am furious and couldn't believe what I heard from him.


Thoughts please ladies :0(

xx

MissFeburary cant believe what I just read!! 

It sounds like your right that him telling you that having the implant taken out was him trying to just shut you up and when he could see you had done your research he back tracked! The fact that this affects you every day not only mentally but that it is also visible is unacceptable and is non existent aftercare!  Are you still within the period of your aftercare?

Im still pre op but if I was in your situation I would be so upset also... I would personally like you have said see another surgeon for his opinion and make a complaint because its not what you paid for....

Im sure some other ladies will be able to help out also but il be following your updates and hope that the problem is sorted out xx

Your surgeon sounds to be very patronising of you babe so its little wonder you were so upset  

Was the option of changing placement from under to over the muscle never discussed?

We've had a few women here with very little breast tissue or body fat who initially had partials and had to change to overs due to muscle distortion which ended in a great result for them and they're really happy now.

I'd maybe give yourself some time to calm down babe and then make another appointment to see your surgeon. Explain that the distress which is obvious from him seeing you is so much that as he can see that you're not imaging this.

You'd like him to consider changing the placement from under the muscle to overs for you and that you see no need to entirely remove the implant when this is an option to resolve the distortion.

Take with you a letter requesting your notes with you just incase you get no further again and would like to retrieve your notes.

Is this a private surgeon babe? Or does he work within a group?

Does his private surgery or the group within he works have a complaints procedure? You may want to call and ask about this.

The calmer you are hun, the better you'll be able to think rationally lovely. The more upset you get you start to lose your train of thought and focus on your anger rather than the actual problem. So pleas babe, for your health as well, because I've been we're you are and know what a strain it is on you, take a big deep breath... Calm yourself down and get the ball rolling to get something down to resolve this issue.

First step... Call about the complaints procedure. Xxx

Thanks ladies,
the way he spoke to me was very condescending at times, especially when drawing me the shape of a square!
It did feel like threatening to take them out was a way to shut me up!
I have had anatomicals Cookie, and I thought that they couldn't go over the muscle, but it wasn't even something that was discussed. His only option was to remove them completely. 
I have booked a consultation with another surgeon for tomorrow morning, to see if he thinks there is anything that can be done, if anything is actually wrong, and give me something to work with before I contact my surgeon again.
I have also contacted a solicitor to get some advice on where I stand with this.
I honestly don't think I can face my surgeon again.
I feel totally let down, and will be looking into the complaints procedure straight away. Didn't even think about that!

Thanks girls 
xx

Quick question...
He is a private consultant who works within two private hospitals.
Who would i make the complaint to??

You'll contact the original clinic that you booked your surgery through babe.

Anatomicals CAN go over the muscle hun.

Kiwigirl, star2angel, Balamoryyellfruit, kirstym and sugarplum_sassie all have anatomical overs to name but a few babe off the top of my head. Xx

Awww so sorry hon, your surgeon sounds like a right **naughty word** :-( I'll bet you're so glad you did your research! It makes you wonder how many women he's been able to fob off because they hadn't! 

Keep your chin up honey and like cookie said above all try keep a cool head. Perhaps you could have another surgeon from the same firm change the placement? Or was it a private surgeon? 

Hugs 

Oh honey I really really hope you manage to get the result you want out of this, I could not believe what I was reading.
 
Thinking of you and wishing you all the luck in the world in your journey to get sorted xxxxxx

Thanks for all your kind words girls. Ill let you know what the surgeon tomorrow says xx

So sorry to read this hunny, sending massive hugs and let us know how you get on x

Good luck... Fingers crossed xx

Good luck huni, once a you get your 2nd opinion you'll be in a much better place to take things forward,I can't believe you were treated in this way, if & when you go back to see your surgeon take someone along with you for some support but also to listen to what is said. Sending you a big hug. XXX

Sorry to hear this sweetie ur surgeon sounds like a rite prat! Let us know how u get on.hopefully u will get the answers u need xxx

Crikey, I can't believe your surgeon is being so obtuse. I am not surprised you are cross, I really hope you manage to get sorted out x

Good luck, sounds like your having an awful time, I hate that when professionals try to out smart people and belittle them, sounds like he's messed with the wrong girl. Don't let him get away with it and keep us updated xx

Hi Ladies,
Well I've been to see another surgeon Dr Garrick Georgeu. He was lovely, I felt that he really listened to me, answered all my questions and went into so much detail with answers that I came out with a smile on my face! He didn't try to hard sell, didnt push anything on me and even when I said things like 'do you think I should' he would say 'thats your decision'.
Let me start by saying that i didn't tell him the name of my surgeon... I didn't want to tell him in case he knew him... The surgery world can be quite small and I want a non biased opinion. Although by not telling him, I feel he may of held back slightly in regards to his answers lol
I did the usual of showing him my boobs, and even with that I felt he took more time! 
I explained to him that my previous surgeon said the only option was to remove the implants. He gave me four/five options.
He said that because I have a very active job, he wouldn't of suggested going under the muscle in the first place. 
He said that nearly everyone that goes under the muscle can feel the muscle move, some more than others and in my case I can feel it more and it is causing discomfort. I showed him them moving and he said they move a lot, but that is something that cannot be known before any surgery. Its something which differs between people. and within my job I use my muscles in my chest a lot more than most so can feel it all day. I asked if going to the gym and doing exercise would make it worse and make my 'dent' worse, he again said he couldn't tell me for certain. He said my breasts were a good shape and that before I had surgery i didn't look at mu boobs half as much as I do now and am noticing slight asymmetry that I didn't notice before. He said that one boob it totally rounded at the bottom and the other is flatter, but that is something that cannot really be changed. (although when I explain my options a bit further down you will see it maybe can)

One thing he did say about unders which I didn't know is that over time they will move further apart... he said it could take weeks, months, years or not even happen but in most cases the muscle moves the breasts apart over time... that shocked me! In al my research about unders I hadn't come across anything about that.

So here are my options...
1. Do nothing - I may get used to the pulling over time

2. remove completely

3. Explorative surgery - he could open up the right and see if scar tissue had formed and remove some, or release the muscle a bit more to see if that eased the tightness (with this there is no guarantee that the scar tissue/tightness wouldn't come back)

4. Change from unders to overs - this would get rid of the pulling i get. using same implant. - chance of implant being visible - feeling implant/rippling

5. Change from unders to overs using a conical implant. would get rid of the pulling and give me even perkier breasts. - with conicals there is even less of an edge on the implant so even less chance of them being visible

Now with my five options...

Options 4 and 5 appear best to me.
Although it may be that the muscle needs releasing more, if I go with the exploratory procedure, I could wake up and still have the same problem. my left pulls too but not as much as my right, so i'd still have the distortion either way.

Option 4 sounds best as I like the size and shape of my boobs now, but what is bothering me is this whole 'seeing the implant'
It confuses me really. Seeing the implant... does that mean that you will actually see the top of the implant, the ridge??? or does it mean that they will just look a bit more fake?

Anyways.... in regards to all this, myself and my partner are discussing children in the next year,  so my boobs will change again. I'm really thinking about waiting for any revision...

thoughts please ladies! 

xx

Well I am so pleased that you have some properly viable options, and answers to some of your questions.

I'm really interested in what was said about feeling the muscles move with unders, what sort of feeling is it?

It sounds like you are leaning towards having overs, what were the reasons for you having unders originally?

Really hope it's not too difficult for you and your surgeon to come to a conclusion, I suspect there is no right or wrong answer and it is a matter of limitation of variables. Look forward to an update, you do sound a lot more positive though which is great x

If it were me... I'd change placement babe. I don't think you're going to be happy at all until this done, so I do think this would be the best option for you. I've seen it done here and the results are fab. Xx

Yep, I'm definitely looking at going to overs, but am thinking of waiting until I have had kids now, although, depends if I can get used to the feeling in the next few months....

Muscles moving with unders....

Its different with each person but for me...
imagine the pecs dance a guy can do, where the muscle tenses and his pecs move? Well for me my boobs move like this BUT I also get a band going across  my boobs too. A big indentation. On my left it is at a vertical angle going from my ribcage under the boob about half way between the crease and the nipple.. and my right goes from my rib cage across my boob, just under the nipple. 

Here is a link to an image of it... its not me, but its kind of what it is like although I feel like mine is slightly worse than this. It is more visible from the front. It happens all the time, from opening a door, taking a lid off of something etc etc. every time you use your chest muscles. 
But as my surgeon said, some girls notice it, some don't, some get used to it, and others need revision.

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thanks for all your support girls... I love this forum!
xx

Gosh, thank you for the explanation and picture. I don't blame you for not being happy with that x

hiya just caught up wow, what a time of it you had with your original surgeon and I cant believe he didnt explain to you about muscle distortion!

I did however get told by my surgeon that the muscle could move the implants further apart over time

hope that you get this all sorted xx