News on PIPs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083254/NHS-remove-PIP-breast-implants-free-charge-private-patients.html

This has left me gob smacked!!!

Well at least the french know how to care for there women.

Will the NHS put new implants back in?

I feel for all you women out there

xxx

I'll move this to the pip section

Thanks misf x

Shame on the government
I'm not saying they should go straight to paying for all of it. But what they should be doing is making the companies involved take responsibility, instead of just saying these companies should do it morally. Unless the law is there to make them do it, it's not likely to change. The government should support these women, they are victims, some of these companies have gone under, these women have no one to turn to in the private sector, they need help from the government.

The matter has been downplayed because it's for cosmetic reasons, and the government and companies are counting on the gullible public not to care about the matter by portraying these women as victims of their own vanity. Like usual, people swallow up the lies. The fact and the matter is no matter how you feel about cosmetic surgery, this is a case of fraud, and industrial silicone was put into the human body, these women need help and need to be taken seriously.

Some people have also been making a distinction between valid reasons for surgery following masectomies and silly pure vain reasons. The fact is whether it is post masectomy or not, none of it is necessary. Even masectomy patients are doing this for cosmetic reasons, since breasts actual purpose is to feed babies. It is up to people what they do with their own bodies, and if they want to impove their cosmetic appearance so be it, whether it's after an unfortunate event like breast cancer or not. BTW, I have two cases of breast cancer at a young age in my family, and am still able to recongise that reconstruction is for vanity too, having breasts is part of our identity as women, I understand.

The NHS is meant to help people. I bet lots of people who are critical about cosmetic surgery smoke, don't exercise, are overweight, drink more than they should, and take part in high risk sports, or have loved ones who do so. Should we turn them away then because of their non-necesssary lifestyle choices? I think not. Anyhow, lets not take the focus off the fact that PIP victims are victims of fraud, this is beyond just straightforward rupturing and other complications that we'd normally pay privately, having industrial silicone wasn't part of the deal.

As an aside, though I do think it's relevant, I really do hate the current government, and I hate what Lansley is planning to do with the NHS. What we have witnessed this week, with the private sector not having to take responsibility for their errors is a sign of things to come if this government has its way with the NHS reforms involving the private sector and 'any willing provider'. They want to be done with taking responsibility, it's not got nothing to do with improving the service for our benefit.

I'm not usually a fan of the Daily Mail, actually I rather hate this paper. But I like to keep an open mind so carry on reading different sources, and I have to say this Daily Mail article I read last night hits the nail, sums it up for me, and I highly recommend it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2082129/Breast-implants-debate-hijacked-sisterhood.html

On the other hand one of my preferred papers should bow their heads down in shame, especially a specific article that the author in the link that I recommended refers to.

I think the government SHOULD foot the bill xx

Not the women, not the clinics but the government they are the ones who awarded PIPs the CE mark and told everyone that they WERE safe to use in the first place.....

sorry rant over now...

The part that shocked me is the comments that are left by other readers, stating that yes if you had it done on the nhs then by all means they should replace them but if you had done it for vanity reasons then its your fault you fit the bill!!

At the end of the day for what ever reason you opt to have surgery you but your life and trust with the company and surgeon you choose, you don't expect them to use implants that are cheaply made and are made from low cost untested silicone gel, so why shouldnt the clinics or nhs foot the bill. When you pay thousands of ££'s for surgery you expect the best not the worst.

No doubt the government should take responsibility for this, as you said Kay, the CE mark was meant to be trusted and properly regulated. I too am in favour of them helping out the victims as they are doing in France, and I didn't phrase my above statement quite clearly.

But these private clinics do need to take some responsibility too. It was already common knowledge that these were cheap implants even before they were banned. My PS never used them, he was well aware of their inferior quality beforehand, and isn't the only one who felt this way. They have been having problems with these implants for years before the ban, this should have signalled alarm bells, but the companies were too greedy so ignored this.

So in short both the government and the private companies should hold some responsibility. And the government should get much tougher on regulation, this is their job afterall, this is a serious matter, and they must be held accountable.

It rerly winds me up when ppl post comments about 'barbie dolls' and 'vanity', we are entitled to feel good about ourselves whether its a new haircut or a new dress, we have saved up our hard earned money to pay for it, the women that had pips didn't sign up to have industrial silicone in there bodies whether it be on the nhs or private so why should some women get help and the others not, this government is totally wrong, what happens to the women whos private company doesn't exist anymore, they just be left to deal with this by themselves??

nat4andy wrote:It rerly winds me up when ppl post comments about 'barbie dolls' and 'vanity', we are entitled to feel good about ourselves whether its a new haircut or a new dress, we have saved up our hard earned money to pay for it, the women that had pips didn't sign up to have industrial silicone in there bodies whether it be on the nhs or private so why should some women get help and the others not, this government is totally wrong, what happens to the women whos private company doesn't exist anymore, they just be left to deal with this by themselves??

Absolutley agree with you hun, just because we get it done privatley and at our own free will it means we are in the wrong and its the womens fault for gettin the implants. If you have the money and have been able to save then why not! It doesnt mean to say just because it was paid for by yourself you should suffer anymore than anyother person.

I must admit there's huge misconceptions about people getting cosmetic surgery, but I've noticed this much more since I live in the UK. Many people seem to be so apologetic about 'vanity' in general. I don't know maybe it's because cosmetic surgery hasn't been around for the general public as long here.

I'm so glad I found you ladies, because my only support network is in Canada, and the only way I'll get the support from my friends and family abroad is through phone, skype and facebook. That just won't cut it when the day comes. My husband works Friday nights so the kids will have to stay with my inlaws the night I have my surgery. I'm not looking forward to asking them for the help. I know they'll do it, but I suspect I know what they'll be thinking. I wish my mom was around to help, but she won't be here until October, I don't want to wait that long. Everyone I know and who understands me is so far away.

Yeah, it's a lot of money, true I can use it for something more 'useful'. But then again, I don't drive and don't want a fancy car or any car for that matter. Nor do I have an expensive engagement/wedding ring, I have a small diamond, I chose it and it's more than enough for me, we had very little money at the time, since we'd just moved here. So I'll let this be my big expense and indulgence. The kids are fine, they are happy and have everything they want and need, we have everything we need, so sometimes it's nice to have something we want too.

kay wrote:I think the government SHOULD foot the bill xx

Not the women, not the clinics but the government they are the ones who awarded PIPs the CE mark and told everyone that they WERE safe to use in the first place.....

sorry rant over now...

This never even crossed my mind im glad you pointed it out. x

Venezuela and the Czech Republic are also advising women to have their implants removed. The UK government is lying to us simply because they do not want to be held accountable and do not want to fork out the expense.

Do I think the NHS should foot the bill? I actually don't. I think the PRIVATE companies who make such massive promises, spend hundreds of thousands on advertising and promotion and swanky clinics, trying to be the top high street clinic, should.

If a clinic is going to sell a product, they have responsibility to ensure that product is fit for purpose. we know PIPs aren't fit for purpose, we've known for years. So clinics trying to tell people they were unaware, trying to pass the buck, is shameful. They were happy to take the cash, they were happy to sell the product so now it's been deemed as a health risk they should dip into their pockets, save on the PR and advertising, and pay for reops.

Stupid thing is they'd find the public reacts more favourably if they would admit fault and sort the problem.

I think it's upto who placed the implant in that women's body to pay. What really upsets me is when u try to explain to a so called friend that these women where informed incorrectly about there implants they respond with its your cosmetic surgery why should I pay for it to be fixed? How dare they I also pay my taxes and saved my **naughty word** of to get my boobs if I need help then I'm a human being too I should be entitled to it narrow minded idiots

I just don't know, who should pay? hmm well I agree with kay on the fact that the MHRA didn't do their own testing on the PIPs and just allowed them to be marketed here, didn't check up, basically just allowed any old thing to be used. So I do agree it's the governments fault. However the clinics knew full well they were an inferior implant that ruptured but because they were cheap and they were only interested in their ownprofit, they decided to use them, making them just as guilty as the manufacturers of PIP.

So my thought is, the government should fine the clinics that used PIP implants enough to cover the costs of removing and re implanting all the women that had PIPs on the NHS with top quality implants, plus force the clinics to pay compensation to the ladies, for stress etc.

I don't really mind who foots the bill to be honest as long as it is NOT the individual woman xx

All those people in the press commenting about how if a woman chose to have implants then she should foot the bill are ignorant, uneducated and narrow minded xx

I agree this is a hard one,

the goverment are now willing to replace private girls pips who can not get their own private clinics to redo the op and will claim the money back from the private companys to pay for it, which is good in my eye BUT you do also have the argument that the goverment shouldnt have EVER let pips be used in our country in the 1st place and should have fully safety/health checked them in my eyes its like letting aload of radio active food into the country and letting it be sold to everyone- this would NEVER happen so why are implants not having the same safety checks done on them?

xx

I don't think we will ever truly know who to Blair or who should foot the bill on this one I think it's pretty much clear that all party's had there part to play. I also know that there are "narrow minded idiots"out there that will never serve a purpose but to complain! I hope all of those responsible get there comeuppance and all the girls will get there justice! Xxxxx

Hi All,

Just joined, only found out last night I had PIP implants put in 2004. Anyway.... I am very angry and agree that the Government should be paying for new implants, after all it is down to them that these implants were deemed safe and as such they should have been monitoring the companies making these implants FAR more carefully!!!!! Why should I have to A: go into debt to pay for new ones or B: suffer from confidence loss (my boobs were ridicously small before and even my surgeon said that they were deformed, lovely!!!) if I have mine removed my chest will probably look far worse now due to skin stretching, not only small but saggy etc; great!!! Oh.... I also have swollen lymph nodes and glands in my right armpit and these have no explanation via blood tests etc; i.e. nothing 'wrong' with me other than the implants might have ruptured (I did have an ultrasound which confirmed no rupture, but how do I know if they have missed something, don't forget medical staff do make mistakes).

Ann xxx

Oh Anne, whats the next step???

Hi PeggySue,

I really don't know... I am waiting for a Attwood solicitors to call me back, don't know if can take legal action as implants been in for 7 years now... I am also waiting for Transform to come back to me with an appointment date and time for me to meet back up with my surgeon to discuss. At the moment I am soooooo... angry!!!! I know when I had the implants in I never questioned them as to what implants they would be putting in, I guess you trust them to be using medically fit implants, I know it is not essentially their fault because they may have been blind to the risks of the implants, but it is also not my fault, why should I have to pay twice, it is so UNFAIR!! I think the british government should be taking responsibility as it is down to them and their checking system that these implants have been inserted in the first place!!!!

Ann xxx

Its all so wrong, your in the right place though you will get so much support on this forum.

Keep in touch xx

Now I fear this isn't going to be a very popular stand point...

Do I think the NHS should remove the implants?..Well no, not really. I think the nature of a Breast Augmentation means that woman should be prepared to undergo future surgerys, for which they should be prepared to pay for. Impants do not last a lifetime, and anyone who belived this 'lifetime guarantee' rubbish, was im afraid being quite naive. Im sure 'risk of rupture' would have been on your consent form? Say you had a BA at 30, do you really expect that the implants would last 50 years?! Im sure most of us would agree that we would expect as least one revsional surgery. Therefore, we should be saving and preapring for this!

Now, anyone suffering clinical symptoms and health issues due to ruptures, and need your implants removed immediately then I have absolutely no arguments regarding you having them removed on the NHS if you are not in a position to go private.

I am currently undergoing reconstruction on the NHS, yet I am acutely aware that in the future I will need more revisional surgery, and so I am preparing for this. Once I am earning I fully intend to save specifically for anymore surgery, should I need it. The NHS waiting lists are LOOONNNGG and should I need more surgery in five years time say, then I know I would much rather go privately in order to avoid the stress of these waiting lists. Had I also had my reconstruction privately in the first place, I would still be saving and doing exactly the same for any future surgery I would require.

And for those ladies complaining that you'll have to wait on the NHS.....welcome to the NHS!! Unfortunately there are just not the resources to deal with those people recieving plastic surgery on the NHS already (I was on the waiting list for 11 months...and now 8 months for my second op), and so unfortunately it means that you will be entering a system that is already operationg beyond its means! It's just the way it is, I have come to terms that there are ladies in far worse positions than myself also waiting, so just suck it up! (I have not heard this here...and it is not directed at any of you ladies, but it is something I have heard in the media, which is somewhat irritating me!) The private clinics are complaining that they do not have the resources to deal with replacing all of the PIPS.....well hello....neither to the NHS!! I really dont belive that the buck should just fall to the NHS...these clinics need to stand up and do the right thing. So therefore I dont belive in bashing the government saying they are heartless in dealing with these women....it's not the governments fault. (see my bit about the MHRA and the clinics also needing to self regulate.)

Now, do I think you ladies deserve to be compensated? OF COURSE. You paid for a product you did not recieve, and in turn this has damaged your health. The clinics that provided you with sub-standard care should be RECTIFYING AND COMPENSATING you for this, and more for the damage to your health! I know they are blaming the MHRA....but these clinics also have a responsibilty to ensure the products they are selling are of the best quality, and they didnt do that. Worse...they KNEW the rupture rate was higher and still continued. These surgeons also had a responsibility....I am a medical student and I already know that there is absolutely no way I would advise a patient to use a sub-standard product just beacuse it was cheaper. Even if a patient wanted these implants then I would not be happy fitting them and so I would not. It's too easy for the clinics to blame the MHRA.

I dont want to come across as if i am being unsympathetic towards the ladies with pip's.....I understand it must be horibble knowing that you had that inside your body, and that you were mislead by people you trusted. That something you had done to make you feel better, has now made you feel 100 times worse. Im sorry for all you ladies going through this.

However...I just think there is a little to much government bashing surrounding this issue. Yes the ladies in france are lucky, but it doesnt mean that what fance are doing should be a standard.

But again...I sincerely hope you ladies get some kind of compensation.

Hi Louise,

I fully understand your viewpoint and I didn't expect my implants to last forever and I knew when I had the surgery that I would have to replace eventually and that is fine. What I am annoyed about is that the implant industry as a whole is not regulated properly be it by the clinics or the government. I am not asking for every pip implant to be replaced as some ladies are not looking to replace them some ladies are fine to leave them as they are not experiencing any symptoms or rupture. The point I am making is that for the ladies that are experiencing symptoms/rupture surely 'someone' should be responsible for re-implantation is it fair to ask them to pay twice for something that they thought would last a fair number of years? My clinic have now come back to me and I have an appointment to discuss on 7th Feb! they have also confirmed that as things stand at the moment (and this could change daily) they are prepared to offer new implants at cost which is significantly reduced so that may be an idea for me.

I understand that the NHS is stretched as I work for the NHS also so am well aware of this and I hope the operations to remove implants does not impact on the other side of the coin i.e. reconstructive surgery for breast cancer etc;